The Kyiv-based vice-president of the World Jewish Congress and chair of the Euro-Asian Jewish Congress, Josef Zissels, visited Ottawa March 3 and Toronto March 4 to share his perspectives on Ukrainian-Jewish relations in Ukraine and trends in the overall political climate.

The CJN spoke with him about Ukrainian Jews’ involvement in the Maidan protest movement in Kyiv in 2013, when then-president Viktor Yanukovych was overthrown; anti-Semitism; and the Ukrainian Jewish Encounter, a multinational group that promotes stronger ties between Ukrainians of Jewish, Christian and other heritages in Ukraine, Israel and the Diaspora.

Were Ukrainian Jews generally opposed to Yanukovych before his overthrow?

We didn’t do any surveys on this, but I feel the majority of Jews in Ukraine are normal, adequate people, so they couldn’t like what Yanukovych was doing… Some made money under Yanukovych, so they supported him. But we also saw businessmen who were against Yanukovych… If you asked Jews, ‘Are you for or against Yanukovych?’ it would be difficult to answer. But if you asked if they are for democracy, you would find they are reasonable people [who want democracy] and dignity.

They see how Jews live in Europe and how they live in Russia, and of course, they choose [to be closer to Europe], even though there is much more anti-Semitism there than in Ukraine and Russia combined.

To what extent were Ukrainian Jews involved in the Maidan movement?

Every ethnic group living in Ukraine, including ethnic Ukrainians, can be divided into three categories:

1. People who belong to an authoritarian, Soviet past and actively defend it and don’t desire to live in a European Ukraine (they are anti-Maidan).

2. People who are indifferent – it doesn’t matter when and how to live. They have no obvious preference.

3. People who are sincerely trying to break away from their authoritarian, Soviet past and to live in a democratic, prosperous and decent Ukraine (the pro-Maidan). 

Among Jews, there are, to this day, Soviet Jews, the Jews of Ukraine and Ukrainian Jews. For the past 23 years, we have seen a process of transformation take place – the transformation of [some] from Soviet Jews to Jews of Ukraine to Ukrainian Jews. The latter were the ones on the Maidan: they spoke, helped and defended the Maidan (three died there and are among the “Heavenly Hundred” – Euromaidan protestors who were killed in the clashes).

Now Ukrainian Jews are among the volunteers in civil society’s main activities. They help displaced persons; help the army and National Guard with money, medication, weapons; they fight as part of the armed forces.

We don’t have statistics, but from general considerations, it’s clear that Jews are very active in various areas. That’s why they were disproportionately more present on Maidan and in parliament, business, science and civil society.

Ukrainian Jews are part of the Ukrainian political nation, just like French Jews for nearly 200 years have been an integral part of the French political nation. 

How common was anti-Semitism under Yanukovych’s rule and now, under President Petro Poroshenko?

During Yanukovych’s rule, the problem was not anti-Semitism, but total theft from the people and a government with no end to its corruption, the lowering of human dignity, a disregard of the nation’s interests. This brought out protest [among people], not anti-Semitism. In the last years of Yanukovych’s [rule], and now, there is very little anti-Semitism in Ukraine.

How does Poroshenko treat Ukraine’s Jews?

We don’t want the Ukrainian authorities, including the president, to especially single out our community from other ethnic minorities in Ukraine. Of course, there are our particular issues related to memory of the Holocaust, migration and others, but we see that the president relates positively to our community. He spoke at the annual commemoration of the Babi Yar tragedy, assured us there is no place for anti-Semitism in Ukraine, and attended the recent anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Where did the notion that the new Ukrainian government is anti-Semitic or fascistic originate?

This began under former Ukrainian president Leonid Kuchma, when the label of “fascist” was first used to identify the opposition. And the Yanukovych government last year did all it could to show that the opposition was fascist and nationalist. We understood these elaborations came from Russia.

Ukraine had an interim government before the election that brought Poroshenko to power. That government had in it several members of the Svoboda party, which is radical, but was also in opposition to Yanukovych (although many believe the party was financed by Yanukovych, so when faced with the next presidential race, Ukrainians would pick him over Svoboda’s leader). Because the label of opposition equals fascist was already there, it was easier for Yanukovych, his followers and Putin to call the opposition fascist. Labels stick… although time is showing that the Ukrainian leadership is neither fascist nor anti-Semitic.

Has it been your sense that Ukrainian Jews or Jews outside Ukraine believed it was fascist or anti-Semitic?

After the government changed, almost all the Jewish organizations in Ukraine supported the new government. In Ukraine, few believed this, but for Jews outside the country, they did more, because a stereotype exists.

What sort of work does the Ukrainian Jewish Encounter do?

UJE has sponsored many activities, including developing a shared historical narrative that engages scholars and experts to produce a truthful account of the Ukrainian-Jewish relationship over the centuries. Before last year’s presidential election, it was one of the sponsors of a major conference in Kyiv called “Ukraine: Thinking Together,” which brought together leading intellectuals to discuss the situation in Ukraine as a way of supporting the democratization process taking place there.

UJE is a sponsor of the Metropolitan Andrey Sheptysky Award, an honour bestowed annually on an individual in Ukraine, Israel or the Diaspora who has made an important contribution to Ukrainian-Jewish understanding and cooperation.

At this year’s book fair in Jerusalem, UJE presented a new, Yiddish-Ukrainian dictionary and sponsored a famous Ukrainian writer, Irena Karpa, who talked about cultural and literary movements in the country today.

My organization works closely with UJE. It has sponsored a number of our initiatives, including youth camps that advocate tolerance. My trip to Canada and the United States, where I met with Ukrainian and Jewish communities, their leaders and leaders of various ethnic Diaspora groups, was made possible through the support of UJE.  

What non-Jewish groups, if any, are friends or allies of the Jews in Ukraine?

We co-operate with many organizations in civil society, and almost all of them are our compatriots. We see very positive attitudes from them toward Jews. Among the Kyiv Patriarchate [of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church], the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Protestants, there is great sympathy toward Jews, and co-operation, for example, with the Ukrainian Catholic University, which also works with UJE, and various human rights group. 

The Russian government is considered quite friendly to Jews. Would you say that’s true? And has that changed at all, in light of the recent conflict?

I think the Russian government is friendly only to itself, and has used the Jewish question to its benefit. It wants to show the world that in Russia, there is a civilized approach to others. But if it becomes beneficial to its interests, if it suits its purpose, the government will make Jews an internal enemy. We’ve seen this done in history before.

Approximately how many Jews live in Ukraine?

Around 300,000. They typically live in large cities, with the majority living in the centre, southern and eastern regions of the country.

What is their typical socio-economic status?

They are middle class and work in all industries.

What’s their typical religious affiliation?

They’re mostly secular, but there are religious Jews. There are 70 synagogues working in Ukraine today.